diff --git a/lib/feed-v1/index.js b/lib/feed-v1/index.js
index 57d080b..574b078 100644
--- a/lib/feed-v1/index.js
+++ b/lib/feed-v1/index.js
@@ -44,7 +44,6 @@ function isEmptyObject(obj) {
  * @property {Record<string, TangleMetadata>} metadata.tangles
  * @property {string} metadata.type
  * @property {string} metadata.who
- * @property {number} metadata.when
  * @property {string} sig
  */
 
@@ -58,7 +57,6 @@ function isEmptyObject(obj) {
  * @typedef {Object} CreateOpts
  * @property {*} content
  * @property {string} type
- * @property {number} when
  * @property {Keys} keys
  * @property {Record<string, Tangle>} tangles
  */
@@ -143,7 +141,6 @@ function create(opts) {
       tangles,
       type: opts.type,
       who: stripAuthor(opts.keys.id),
-      when: +opts.when,
     },
     sig: '',
   }
@@ -176,7 +173,6 @@ function createRoot(keys, type) {
       tangles: {},
       type,
       who: stripAuthor(keys.id),
-      when: 0,
     },
     sig: '',
   }
diff --git a/lib/feed-v1/validation.js b/lib/feed-v1/validation.js
index ede7c70..85630fb 100644
--- a/lib/feed-v1/validation.js
+++ b/lib/feed-v1/validation.js
@@ -142,13 +142,6 @@ function validateTangleRoot(msg, tangleId) {
   }
 }
 
-function validateWhen(msg) {
-  if (msg.metadata.when && typeof msg.metadata.when !== 'number') {
-    // prettier-ignore
-    return new Error('invalid message: `when` is not a number, on feed: ' + msg.metadata.who);
-  }
-}
-
 function validateType(type) {
   if (!type || typeof type !== 'string') {
     // prettier-ignore
@@ -190,7 +183,6 @@ function validateSync(msg, tangle, msgHash, rootHash) {
   let err
   if ((err = validateShape(msg))) return err
   if ((err = validateWho(msg))) return err
-  if ((err = validateWhen(msg))) return err
   if (msgHash === rootHash) {
     if ((err = validateTangleRoot(msg))) return err
   } else {
diff --git a/lib/plugin.js b/lib/plugin.js
index 3d059f6..e0735a4 100644
--- a/lib/plugin.js
+++ b/lib/plugin.js
@@ -231,7 +231,7 @@ exports.init = function initDB(peer, config) {
     const tangleTemplates = opts.tangles ?? []
     tangleTemplates.push(feedRootHash)
     const tangles = populateTangles(tangleTemplates)
-    const fullOpts = { when: Date.now(), ...opts, tangles, keys }
+    const fullOpts = { ...opts, tangles, keys }
 
     // If opts ask for encryption, encrypt and put ciphertext in opts.content
     const recps = fullOpts.content.recps
diff --git a/test/add.test.js b/test/add.test.js
index 2cc16d0..eaab35d 100644
--- a/test/add.test.js
+++ b/test/add.test.js
@@ -24,13 +24,12 @@ test('add()', async (t) => {
   const rootHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(rootMsg)
 
   const recRoot = await p(peer.db.add)(rootMsg, rootHash)
-  t.equals(recRoot.msg.metadata.when, 0, 'root msg added')
+  t.equals(recRoot.msg.metadata.size, 0, 'root msg added')
   const tangle = new FeedV1.Tangle(rootHash)
   tangle.add(recRoot.hash, recRoot.msg)
 
   const inputMsg = FeedV1.create({
     keys,
-    when: 1514517067954,
     type: 'post',
     content: { text: 'This is the first post!' },
     tangles: {
diff --git a/test/create.test.js b/test/create.test.js
index c04a684..ec40750 100644
--- a/test/create.test.js
+++ b/test/create.test.js
@@ -72,7 +72,6 @@ test('add() forked then create() merged', async (t) => {
 
   const msg3 = FeedV1.create({
     keys,
-    when: Date.now(),
     type: 'post',
     content: { text: '3rd post forked from 1st' },
     tangles: {
diff --git a/test/erase.test.js b/test/erase.test.js
index 40545aa..454a4ea 100644
--- a/test/erase.test.js
+++ b/test/erase.test.js
@@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ test('erase', async (t) => {
 
   await peer.db.loaded()
 
-  const rootHash = 'PpkBfa8C4sB8wHrqiNmHqe'
+  const rootHash = 'PGwQiuwFnB7EySQHBit2mA'
   const msgHashes = []
   for (let i = 0; i < 5; i++) {
     const rec = await p(peer.db.create)({
diff --git a/test/feed-v1-create.test.js b/test/feed-v1-create.test.js
index 5bf9301..707869b 100644
--- a/test/feed-v1-create.test.js
+++ b/test/feed-v1-create.test.js
@@ -12,18 +12,16 @@ tape('FeedV1.createRoot()', (t) => {
   t.equals(rootMsg.metadata.size, 0, 'size')
   t.equals(rootMsg.metadata.type, 'post', 'type')
   t.equals(rootMsg.metadata.who, FeedV1.stripAuthor(keys.id), 'who')
-  t.equals(rootMsg.metadata.when, 0, 'when')
   t.deepEquals(rootMsg.metadata.tangles, {}, 'tangles')
 
   rootHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(rootMsg)
-  t.equals(rootHash, 'PpkBfa8C4sB8wHrqiNmHqe', 'root hash')
+  t.equals(rootHash, 'PGwQiuwFnB7EySQHBit2mA', 'root hash')
   t.end()
 })
 
 tape('FeedV1.create()', (t) => {
   const keys = generateKeypair('alice')
   const content = { text: 'Hello world!' }
-  const when = 1652037377204
 
   const tangle1 = new FeedV1.Tangle(rootHash)
   tangle1.add(rootHash, rootMsg)
@@ -35,11 +33,10 @@ tape('FeedV1.create()', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle1,
     },
-    when,
   })
   t.deepEquals(
     Object.keys(msg1.metadata),
-    ['proof', 'size', 'tangles', 'type', 'who', 'when'],
+    ['proof', 'size', 'tangles', 'type', 'who'],
     'metadata fields'
   )
   t.equals(
@@ -53,12 +50,11 @@ tape('FeedV1.create()', (t) => {
   t.equals(msg1.metadata.tangles[rootHash].depth, 1, 'tangle depth')
   t.deepEquals(msg1.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev, [rootHash], 'tangle prev')
   t.deepEquals(msg1.metadata.size, 23, 'metadata.size')
-  t.equals(typeof msg1.metadata.when, 'number', 'metadata.when')
   t.deepEqual(msg1.content, content, 'content is correct')
 
   console.log(msg1)
 
-  const msgHash1 = 'YWbEeMtcU4eNwF6uJVTrKE'
+  const msgHash1 = 'M31mLeV2wNDwp9ZRkkF8pL'
 
   t.equals(
     FeedV1.getMsgId(msg1),
@@ -80,11 +76,10 @@ tape('FeedV1.create()', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle2,
     },
-    when: when + 1,
   })
   t.deepEquals(
     Object.keys(msg2.metadata),
-    ['proof', 'size', 'tangles', 'type', 'who', 'when'],
+    ['proof', 'size', 'tangles', 'type', 'who'],
     'metadata keys'
   )
   t.equals(
@@ -98,14 +93,13 @@ tape('FeedV1.create()', (t) => {
   t.deepEquals(msg2.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev, [msgHash1], 'tangle prev')
   t.deepEquals(msg2.metadata.proof, 'XuZEzH1Dhy1yuRMcviBBcN', 'metadata.proof')
   t.deepEquals(msg2.metadata.size, 21, 'metadata.size')
-  t.equals(typeof msg2.metadata.when, 'number', 'metadata.when')
   t.deepEqual(msg2.content, content2, 'content is correct')
 
   console.log(msg2)
 
   t.deepEqual(
     FeedV1.getMsgId(msg2),
-    'ppppp:message/v1/4mjQ5aJu378cEu6TksRG3uXAiKFiwGjYQtWAjfVjDAJW/post/R9XRXBL1ntSKRrrk86bhn8',
+    'ppppp:message/v1/4mjQ5aJu378cEu6TksRG3uXAiKFiwGjYQtWAjfVjDAJW/post/MHLPVrHFzCLXVeXUkY1W4a',
     'getMsgId'
   )
 
@@ -114,7 +108,6 @@ tape('FeedV1.create()', (t) => {
 
 tape('create() handles DAG tips correctly', (t) => {
   const keys = generateKeypair('alice')
-  const when = 1652037377204
   const tangle = new FeedV1.Tangle(rootHash)
   tangle.add(rootHash, rootMsg)
 
@@ -125,12 +118,11 @@ tape('create() handles DAG tips correctly', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 1,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   t.deepEquals(
     msg1.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev,
-    ['PpkBfa8C4sB8wHrqiNmHqe'],
+    ['PGwQiuwFnB7EySQHBit2mA'],
     'msg1.prev is root'
   )
 
@@ -143,7 +135,6 @@ tape('create() handles DAG tips correctly', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 2,
   })
   t.deepEquals(
     msg2A.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev,
@@ -158,7 +149,6 @@ tape('create() handles DAG tips correctly', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 2,
   })
   const msgHash2B = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg2B)
   t.deepEquals(
@@ -176,7 +166,6 @@ tape('create() handles DAG tips correctly', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 3,
   })
   const msgHash3 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg3)
   t.deepEquals(
@@ -197,7 +186,6 @@ tape('create() handles DAG tips correctly', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 4,
   })
   t.deepEquals(
     msg4.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev,
diff --git a/test/feed-v1-invalid-prev.test.js b/test/feed-v1-invalid-prev.test.js
index 173351d..a890096 100644
--- a/test/feed-v1-invalid-prev.test.js
+++ b/test/feed-v1-invalid-prev.test.js
@@ -19,7 +19,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with non-array prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   msg.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev = null
   const msgHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg)
@@ -47,7 +46,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with bad prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   tangle.add(msgHash1, msg1)
@@ -59,7 +57,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with bad prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
   msg2.metadata.tangles[rootHash].depth = 1
   msg2.metadata.tangles[rootHash].prev = [1234]
@@ -92,7 +89,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with URI in prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   tangle.add(msgHash1, msg1)
@@ -104,7 +100,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with URI in prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
   const msgHash2 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg2)
   const randBuf = Buffer.alloc(16).fill(16)
@@ -139,7 +134,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with unknown prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   tangle.add(msgHash1, msg1)
@@ -151,7 +145,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with unknown prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const unknownMsgHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(unknownMsg)
 
@@ -166,7 +159,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with unknown prev', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle2
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
   const msgHash2 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg2)
 
@@ -197,7 +189,6 @@ tape('invalid feed msg with a different who', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: feedTangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
   const msgHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg)
 
@@ -222,7 +213,6 @@ tape('invalid feed msg with a different type', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: feedTangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
   const msgHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg)
 
diff --git a/test/feed-v1-invalid-type.test.js b/test/feed-v1-invalid-type.test.js
index 0462cc1..b113bed 100644
--- a/test/feed-v1-invalid-type.test.js
+++ b/test/feed-v1-invalid-type.test.js
@@ -10,7 +10,6 @@ tape('invalid type not a string', (t) => {
       FeedV1.create({
         keys,
         content: { text: 'Hello world!' },
-        when: 1652037377204,
         type: 123,
       })
     },
@@ -28,7 +27,6 @@ tape('invalid type with "/" character', (t) => {
       FeedV1.create({
         keys,
         content: { text: 'Hello world!' },
-        when: 1652037377204,
         type: 'group/init',
       })
     },
@@ -46,7 +44,6 @@ tape('invalid type with "*" character', (t) => {
       FeedV1.create({
         keys,
         content: { text: 'Hello world!' },
-        when: 1652037377204,
         type: 'star*',
       })
     },
@@ -64,7 +61,6 @@ tape('invalid type too short', (t) => {
       FeedV1.create({
         keys,
         content: { text: 'Hello world!' },
-        when: 1652037377204,
         type: 'xy',
       })
     },
@@ -82,7 +78,6 @@ tape('invalid type too long', (t) => {
       FeedV1.create({
         keys,
         content: { text: 'Hello world!' },
-        when: 1652037377204,
         type: 'a'.repeat(120),
       })
     },
diff --git a/test/feed-v1-lipmaa.test.js b/test/feed-v1-lipmaa.test.js
index 6a4a347..e2be01d 100644
--- a/test/feed-v1-lipmaa.test.js
+++ b/test/feed-v1-lipmaa.test.js
@@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ const { generateKeypair } = require('./util')
 tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
   const keys = generateKeypair('alice')
   const content = { text: 'Hello world!' }
-  const when = 1652037377204
 
   const rootMsg = FeedV1.createRoot(keys, 'post')
   const rootHash = FeedV1.getMsgHash(rootMsg)
@@ -19,7 +18,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 1,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   tangle.add(msgHash1, msg1)
@@ -33,7 +31,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 2,
   })
   const msgHash2 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg2)
   tangle.add(msgHash2, msg2)
@@ -47,7 +44,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 3,
   })
   const msgHash3 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg3)
   tangle.add(msgHash3, msg3)
@@ -65,7 +61,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 4,
   })
   const msgHash4 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg4)
   tangle.add(msgHash4, msg4)
@@ -79,7 +74,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 5,
   })
   const msgHash5 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg5)
   tangle.add(msgHash5, msg5)
@@ -93,7 +87,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 6,
   })
   const msgHash6 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg6)
   tangle.add(msgHash6, msg6)
@@ -107,7 +100,6 @@ tape('lipmaa prevs', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: when + 7,
   })
   const msgHash7 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg7)
   tangle.add(msgHash7, msg7)
diff --git a/test/feed-v1-tangles.test.js b/test/feed-v1-tangles.test.js
index 246f570..9f6a749 100644
--- a/test/feed-v1-tangles.test.js
+++ b/test/feed-v1-tangles.test.js
@@ -23,7 +23,6 @@ tape('simple multi-author tangle', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHashA]: tangleA,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   t.deepEquals(
@@ -43,7 +42,6 @@ tape('simple multi-author tangle', (t) => {
       [rootHashB]: tangleB,
       [msgHash1]: tangleX,
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
 
   t.deepEquals(
@@ -73,7 +71,6 @@ tape('lipmaa in multi-author tangle', (t) => {
   const keysB = generateKeypair('bob')
 
   const content = { text: 'Hello world!' }
-  const when = 1652037377204
 
   const rootMsgA = FeedV1.createRoot(keysA, 'post')
   const rootHashA = FeedV1.getMsgHash(rootMsgA)
@@ -92,7 +89,6 @@ tape('lipmaa in multi-author tangle', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHashA]: tangleA,
     },
-    when: when + 1,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   tangleA.add(msgHash1, msg1)
@@ -113,7 +109,6 @@ tape('lipmaa in multi-author tangle', (t) => {
       [rootHashB]: tangleB,
       [msgHash1]: tangleThread,
     },
-    when: when + 2,
   })
   const msgHash2 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg2)
   tangleB.add(msgHash2, msg2)
@@ -133,7 +128,6 @@ tape('lipmaa in multi-author tangle', (t) => {
       [rootHashB]: tangleB,
       [msgHash1]: tangleThread,
     },
-    when: when + 3,
   })
   const msgHash3 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg3)
   tangleB.add(msgHash3, msg3)
@@ -153,7 +147,6 @@ tape('lipmaa in multi-author tangle', (t) => {
       [rootHashA]: tangleA,
       [msgHash1]: tangleThread,
     },
-    when: when + 4,
   })
   const msgHash4 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg4)
   tangleB.add(msgHash4, msg4)
diff --git a/test/feed-v1-validate.test.js b/test/feed-v1-validate.test.js
index c6221ac..4c8dc96 100644
--- a/test/feed-v1-validate.test.js
+++ b/test/feed-v1-validate.test.js
@@ -33,7 +33,6 @@ tape('validate 2nd msg with existing root', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
   tangle.add(msgHash1, msg1)
@@ -61,7 +60,6 @@ tape('validate 2nd forked msg', (t) => {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
     existing: new Map(),
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1A = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1A)
 
@@ -72,7 +70,6 @@ tape('validate 2nd forked msg', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030002000,
   })
   const msgHash1B = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1B)
 
@@ -100,7 +97,6 @@ tape('invalid msg with unknown previous', (t) => {
     tangles: {
       [rootHash]: tangle,
     },
-    when: 1652030001000,
   })
   const msgHash1 = FeedV1.getMsgHash(msg1)
 
diff --git a/test/on-record-added.test.js b/test/on-record-added.test.js
index 2dd3e7d..08df6a5 100644
--- a/test/on-record-added.test.js
+++ b/test/on-record-added.test.js
@@ -33,7 +33,7 @@ test('onRecordAdded', async (t) => {
 
   t.equal(listened.length, 2)
   t.deepEquals(listened[0].msg.content, null, 'root')
-  t.deepEquals(listened[0].msg.metadata.when, 0, 'root')
+  t.deepEquals(listened[0].msg.metadata.size, 0, 'root')
   t.deepEquals(listened[1], rec1, 'actual record')
 
   remove()